Transverse/longitudonal

Which drivetrain to choose, so many choices, 4-cyl? 6-cyl? NA? Turbo?
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Transverse/longitudonal

Post by 1,8t » 17 Feb 2021, 12:14

Hello you all fantastic people.
Im looking for a vw or Audi donor that will provide me with at 1.8 T.
Question is if a longitudonal setting would fit in a Midlana or does it have to be transverse?

I would prefer the longitudonal with the 058 block since its good to go for tuning up to at least 500 hp.
Nothing i would do at first hand couse 150-250 hp surely will do also. But it would feel nice to know that i have the oppertunety to do it if i want to 😁

So what do you guys think?

And im writing all the way from Sweden so please excuse my half bad English.

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Re: Transverse/longitudonal

Post by Midlana1 » 17 Feb 2021, 16:42

It will not fit the default plans, but even with transverse FWD lumps, just about every builder has modified their build in some way, which I encourage!

You'll have to stretch the chassis behind the driver, which will certainly change the look, but that's entirely subjective. It'll stretch the wheelbase as well and the good news is that it'll shift the CG forward by "some amount", likely to around 45%F/55%R, which is a good place to be.

Welcome, and my Swedish sucks, so it's all relative!

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Re: Transverse/longitudonal

Post by ChrisS » 18 Feb 2021, 01:54

If it helps, I've seen a couple of Stratos replicas that have been adapted to longitudinal layout (to replicate the Gp4 cars) and as Kurt says, just add metal!

I added 4” to the length of the engine bay on my Midlana which was pretty trivial to do. Having confirmed it wasn’t an issue beforehand of course.
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Re: Transverse/longitudonal

Post by 1,8t » 18 Feb 2021, 03:25

Thanks my friends, i do no longer fear the longitudonal engine 😁

Will continou to look for a donor before 2000, they also have drive by cable so i belive thats a advantage too.

Do you think its ok to build the bottom chassis as the original drawing suggest and then later extend it?

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Re: Transverse/longitudonal

Post by Midlana1 » 18 Feb 2021, 07:55

There is so much to do before cutting and welding starts. Like the book says, there's getting the build area ready, obtaining critical parts that may alter the size of the chassis, but most importantly is looking into the laws in your area regarding home-built cars. After that, sure, you can start building, but in your case, not having a drivetrain, I'd spend the build time toward the front of the car and only start at the rear once the entire driveline is in-place.

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Re: Transverse/longitudonal

Post by 1,8t » 18 Feb 2021, 10:11

Thanks a lot for youre input Kurt, its a honour for me to have a few words with "The Kurt".
I will make my own buildtable and the workshop is no problem since i have my own company as a welder/blacksmith. The metal work will be a walk in the park but as car mechanic im intermediate and will have to learn a lot during this travel. Its a great advantage to have other friends like in this forum where we can help each other.
In Sweden we have a great vehicle build culture wich is controled by certain laws and regulations but is totaly understandable and ok if you just take the time to understand before you start to build. Or you will in worst case have to scrap and start all over.

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Re: Transverse/longitudonal

Post by Midlana1 » 18 Feb 2021, 10:17

I seem to remember another Midlana builder* from Sweden, and in his area, they have a law concerning power to weight ratio. If you have that situation in your area, be careful, since it would be all but impossible to fix it short of changing engines.

*EDIT: found it, https://www.midlana.com/forum/viewtopic ... eden#p9966
Here in Sweden we have law that say :When rebuilding a vehicle and want to get everything correct and approved, that there must be a maximum of 15 kW engine power per 100 kg service weight.

And the Midlana whith a weight on 700-800kg/1550 to 1770 lb
The approved power is 140 to 160kw.

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Re: Transverse/longitudonal

Post by ChrisS » 18 Feb 2021, 14:15

By way of some inspiration for you :)

This was a Stratos replica that had been converted to Gp5 configuration with a V6 Alfa engine and a Porsche transaxle. I used to know the owner back a few years ago and installed a new engine management system for him. It was long, involved and sorry tale....he ended up with the car after some sort of disagreement with the builder, but it didn't have the right engine, and the ECU was an old Webcon system that nobody could map any more. I volunteered to fit something a bit more modern for him.

A bad shot of the engine:
small evo.JPG
And the car at Silverstone for a test day. Notice how I artfully got the background perfectly in focus whilst blurring the car.....
silverstone.JPG
Craig at LB Specialist Cars has been building himself a Gp5 inspired car for a while now, in between building customer cars.

Adding enough length to accommodate a longitudinal layout will certainly change the look of the car as Kurt said - have you done any drawings/mock-ups/renderings? Interested to see how it looks. That said, Craig's car is only about 6" longer than the transverse Stratos replica he makes I think, but he has sacrificed the boot as it now has a big chunk of gearbox in it.
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Re: Transverse/longitudonal

Post by 1,8t » 19 Feb 2021, 10:40

Midlana1 wrote:
18 Feb 2021, 10:17
I seem to remember another Midlana builder* from Sweden, and in his area, they have a law concerning power to weight ratio. If you have that situation in your area, be careful, since it would be all but impossible to fix it short of changing engines.

*EDIT: found it, https://www.midlana.com/forum/viewtopic ... eden#p9966
Here in Sweden we have law that say :When rebuilding a vehicle and want to get everything correct and approved, that there must be a maximum of 15 kW engine power per 100 kg service weight.

And the Midlana whith a weight on 700-800kg/1550 to 1770 lb
The approved power is 140 to 160kw.

Yes its correct Kurt, we have a standard rule that says 100 hp / 500 kg.
But a exemption is possible with upgraded brakes and stronger chassis, of course i will look into this and make correct decisions around this matter.
Its also a little bit like this: once the car is registered and the 1st MOT test is done, they will no longer at the annual MOT look into how many hp/kw youre running as long as its not very obviouse that youre build is running crazy faster than it should. Of course this is a little game to play but im thinking that as long i stay with chip tuning i can easily go back to my start point if i have to.

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Re: Transverse/longitudonal

Post by 1,8t » 19 Feb 2021, 11:24

ChrisS wrote:
18 Feb 2021, 14:15
By way of some inspiration for you :)

This was a Stratos replica that had been converted to Gp5 configuration with a V6 Alfa engine and a Porsche transaxle. I used to know the owner back a few years ago and installed a new engine management system for him. It was long, involved and sorry tale....he ended up with the car after some sort of disagreement with the builder, but it didn't have the right engine, and the ECU was an old Webcon system that nobody could map any more. I volunteered to fit something a bit more modern for him.

A bad shot of the engine:

small evo.JPG

And the car at Silverstone for a test day. Notice how I artfully got the background perfectly in focus whilst blurring the car.....

silverstone.JPG

Craig at LB Specialist Cars has been building himself a Gp5 inspired car for a while now, in between building customer cars.

Adding enough length to accommodate a longitudinal layout will certainly change the look of the car as Kurt said - have you done any drawings/mock-ups/renderings? Interested to see how it looks. That said, Craig's car is only about 6" longer than the transverse Stratos replica he makes I think, but he has sacrificed the boot as it now has a big chunk of gearbox in it.
Chriss, thanks a lot for youre inspiration.
Im still looking for a suitable donor and im not yet completely sure weather it will end up with a transverse or a longitudinal. Ive been googling pictures of the longitudinal 1.8t and it realy is a big diffrence both in the way it looks and also the dimensions.
Have to think a little bit moore around this.

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