Another Adelaide build

Goals, budgeting, drivetrain selection, options, driver protection, creating a workshop, etc
polyglot
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Another Adelaide build

Post by polyglot » 05 Jun 2021, 20:20

After 15 years of "gonna", I now have my shed, welders and the necessary toys so I'm preparing to start on a Midlana-like car. I went and visited freakynami's build a few weeks ago and can confirm it is real :) Progress so far is a bit lame - I have some CAD for frame torsion guessing and I have bought a donor vehicle: a 2012 CU2 Accord Euro (that's a TSX to you Americans) with K24Z3 and 6-speed manual.

Noting that I'm cheekily making more-than-full use of Kurt's invitation to use Midlana as inspiration and not follow the design slavishly, I have a bunch of questions arising from deviations from the book that I'm hoping people here can help me with :)

MX5/Miata bits are not common or cheap here so I am hoping to recycle the front uprights, driveshafts and hubs from the Accord for use in the rear, then buying matching set of uprights/hubs/etc from a local wrecker to put in the front. That gives me 320mm vented brakes all-around, in 18x8" stock wheels for which tyres in suitable sizes are readily available in a full range of stickiness. It will therefore also end up with the same track (1580) as the Accord.

I haven't taken the front uprights out to inspect them yet, but some obvious questions:
* Do we foresee a problem with bolting on a top balljoint where the Macpherson Strut used to go?
* Do we have any good suggestions for parking brakes?

Yes I know I will need to re-design the suspension geometry, at least at the front because I intend to reuse the Accord steering rack, depowered, and that will define the lateral spacing of the inboard pickups to avoid bump steer. I have the Staniforth book. My rear suspension will be very Midlana-like, except for changes arising from the different uprights.

Secondly, fuel tank. I've watched so many people struggle with warpage and it occurs to me that TIG brazing would be a better approach because it does not melt the parent metal. Has anyone tried, or got any good reasons why brazing 304 with silicon bronze could be problematic? Seems to me I could end up with a well-sealed, straight tank.

Nosecones as used on Midlana are also not readily available here so I am resigned to doing a bunch of custom bodywork, which means I don't have the width constraint that the front-end of Midlana does. I have a CNC router so making a decent buck with nice curves should not be too terrible. I will probably make the chassis a bit wider and put a full (something between the Cobra and Benz SLS) nose over the front, covering the front wheels. Who knows though, that's 5 years away and I've never done any fibreglass so the answer might be very different when I get there.

Pic is my donor car. It's a statutory writeoff (cannot be registered) due to hail damage. Other than some pin dents on the top, it is pretty much in perfect and clean condition.
Image

1,8t
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Re: Another Adelaide build

Post by 1,8t » 05 Jun 2021, 22:56

Wellcome Polyglot, im looking forward to follow your progress.
What country do you live in? I live in Sweden and i am about to start my project. Got my MX5 uprights both front and rear and my steering rack is on its way from US, should arrive at the end of June.
Just like you im planning to build a bit wider and properbly another nosecone.
See you around!

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freakynami
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Re: Another Adelaide build

Post by freakynami » 06 Jun 2021, 00:29

Welcome!

Does your front suspension look like this?
47224.jpg
Other than the upper wishbone being high, it looks close to useable?
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Re: Another Adelaide build

Post by polyglot » 06 Jun 2021, 03:48

1.8t: I am in (South) Australia.

freakynami: not sure. I'm deliberately not stripping it just yet because once I start, I won't be able to move it. So it's got to be moved from its very small storage shed into the workshop first.

This is what the previous (CL9) model looks like:
Image

And google says mine might look like this:
Image
... so similar, but without upper arm being so high.
Edit: this might actually be the rear.

Aftermarket front camber-adjustable upper-arm kit seems to match:
Image

Secondary question: does it matter if I run a front hub with no axles (ideally no outer CV either) in it? Assuming I can arrange appropriate dust shielding, would there be any problem with running a front hub assembly freewheel? I'm assuming there's just some splines in there that will get lonely, and that it's not all magically held together by the axle or something stupid like that.

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Re: Another Adelaide build

Post by Midlana1 » 06 Jun 2021, 06:58

To your last question, it's done all the time. Something does have to be there because it holds a few parts together in the upright and the easiest fix is the outer-most piece of old axle assemblies. You can certainly make something different but maybe compromise and cut off the CV portion of the outer-most bit to save weight? May be hardened, though.

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Re: Another Adelaide build

Post by rennkafer » 07 Jun 2021, 06:58

Welcome, and I'll echo what Kurt said about your last question. You definitely need something through the front hub/bearing assembly. I've seen outer CV's with all but a flange machined off used. The stub axle (usually part of the outer CV) clamps the bearing/hub assembly together and you'll fail the bearings pretty quickly without. Some vehicles will fail the bearings without CV/Stubs in and tightened just moving them about in the shop with the vehicle weight on them with no power applied.
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Re: Another Adelaide build

Post by polyglot » 07 Jun 2021, 21:11

Thanks guys - sounds like a chopped-up CV is doable then to make a freewheel.

Any thoughts about the other issues, like TIG-brazing a fuel tank?

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Re: Another Adelaide build

Post by freakynami » 09 Jun 2021, 03:17

Wow, initially I thought of a couple of reasons why it'd never work to TIG braze SS with Silocon Bronze filler. Googled a bit, and it's definitely a thing - and it looks like a good thing too. Certainly keeps the heat a lot lower which is where the distortion comes from so should be great for that. What I'm not sure about I'm afraid is the compatibility with fuel, or how it fatigues. I'll see if one of the aircraft welders I know can shed some light... Do you plan on using E85 down the track? If not I wouldn't zero straight in on stainless.

No idea if it'll bolt on easily, but I believe the Hoondye Elantra/Tiburon rear caliper is hydraulic disc with a mechanical handbrake, I thought it was on another more sporty Hundie but can only find that one on the google right now. - ahh found it - Veloster!

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Re: Another Adelaide build

Post by polyglot » 09 Jun 2021, 04:07

freakynami wrote:
09 Jun 2021, 03:17
No idea if it'll bolt on easily, but I believe the Hoondye Elantra/Tiburon rear caliper is hydraulic disc with a mechanical handbrake, I thought it was on another more sporty Hundie but can only find that one on the google right now. - ahh found it - Veloster!
Excellent brake suggestion, thanks! It looks like the cables actuate the same piston as the hydraulics, so pretty much perfect if I can get a pair of appropriate size.

I don't plan on using E85 as it is not readily available near me, and the power I could get from a turbo on 98 would be plenty. If cylinder pressures are too high and causing knock, I'll just put a thicker head gasket in. Brass and E85 is no good but I thought that was due to the Pb/Zn in it, whereas Si bronze has very little of that.

This copypasta shows up in a few places but I don't have a source for it:
As is the case with all liquid fuels, it is vitally important that proper fuel-handling techniques be practiced to prevent fuel contamination. Certain materials commonly used with gasoline may be incompatible with high-level ethanol blends, causing them to degrade and contaminate the fuel. Metals that have been shown to degrade over time in the presence of high-level alcohol blends include brass, lead, zinc and lead-based solder. Nonmetallic materials that degrade when in contact with ethanol include natural rubber, polyurethane, cork gasket material, leather, polyvinyl chloride (PVC) polyamides, and certain thermoplastic or thermoset polymers.

On the other hand, unplated steel, nickel-plated steel, stainless steel, black iron and bronze have shown resistance to ethanol corrosion, with nonmetallic materials like reinforced fiberglass, Buna-N, Neoprene rubber, polypropylene, nitrile rubber, Viton and Teflon meeting acceptable usage standards with E85

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Re: Another Adelaide build

Post by ChrisS » 12 Jun 2021, 12:47

I used 2017 i30N rear calipers on mine after finding the MX5 brakes didn’t do the job. I think they are pretty much the same as what you are discussing? They work very well, handbrake is excellent too. Work well with a 316mm vented disc.
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