Freakynami's [Virtual] build...

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Def
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Re: Freakynami's [Virtual] build...

Postby Def » 28 Jan 2017, 18:46

Finally got all the way through your virtual build thread - great stuff here. Interesting to see how stringent Aussie laws are for getting your car on the road... That has its good and its bad points...


I don't suppose you have a basic assembly of the book frame you might be willing to shoot over to me? I have dabbled with SW some, and while I loathe it compared to Catia V5, it's one of the packages I have access to these days. I've got some ideas on a few tubes, and I'm never one to turn down a shortcut! Not an issue if you're not comfortable with that.

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Re: Freakynami's [Virtual] build...

Postby freakynami » 28 Jan 2017, 19:07

I'll handball the question and answer straight to Kurt.

I know he wants to keep across his intellectual property, hence obscuring some of the specific details like tube measurements that should only be available to people who've invested in the book. If Kurt would like to be the middle man, I'm happy to pass on the initial model I have of the "book" frame. Personally, I would be worried about it ending up on some site somewhere and people thinking they've got all the data and building the car without the book, which has all of the really important info! Not that I don't trust you, or the next person, or the next, but you never know how far electronic data can spread, or how fast...

I know Kurt's Kimini spreadsheet was hosted somewhere, and was available for download via a link he published in the book...

On the other hand, in my opinion, what harm can it do? If I had access to the CAD I may have started there and ended up buying the book anyway?

Finally, if you use it as a learning opportunity - it won't take all that much time to model the "basic" chassis, half a day for a pro to maybe 20-40 hours for a student??? Then you know how the model was put together, just like knowing how to maintain your own Midlana as you built it so know how it goes together.

Sorry for not giving you a straight answer, but I think it probably needs a bit of discussion first.

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Re: Freakynami's [Virtual] build...

Postby Midlana1 » 28 Jan 2017, 21:35

Thanks Freaky, for taking the high road on this and I agree it'll takes some thought.

I always suspected that people would eventually make bits and pieces of Midlana and sell them. I can't control what people do anyway, so if someone does, I'll live with it since I chose not to. A CAD model on the other hand is more tricky.

I feel that having just the CAD model lacks nearly all of what the book contains, as was its intent. The problem is, people downloading the CAD model don't know that, likely figuring that it's all they need so there's no reason to buy the book. Maybe they figure they can troll around here to get what they're missing. It's the nature of the Internet it seems, where people feel that everything should be free. (It's interesting that doing a Google search on "Midlana PDF" auto-completes, which means there are people out there hoping the entire book has been hacked... doesn't help my opinion of humanity.)

The thought that someone put effort into something doesn't seem to concern them, probably using the "but I'm just one person" excuse to justify their actions. As Freaky said though, if the plans get out, it's a tough call what will happen. I'd like to think people would buy the book anyway for all the missing information, but like Freaky alluded to, why would they when they don't know what they don't know.

As I type this, I'm coming down on the side of trying to contain uncontrolled distribution of any CAD. In fact, I just thought of a nightmarish situation for me, where someone makes a slightly wrong Midlana chassis in CAD and puts it on the Web, someone downloads it, builds it, crashes the car, and his family sues ME. A few times I've considered not distributing the book at all because of reasons much like this. When I start thinking about it too much, the idea of pulling the plug starts raising its head again. If I don't think about it, everything's fine... don't make me think about it.

I realize that sooner or later, a CAD drawing will eventually get out; I guess I'm hoping it'll be a few more years before that happens, but that's all I can do - hope.

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Re: Freakynami's [Virtual] build...

Postby Def » 29 Jan 2017, 07:14

No worries guys. I definitely bought the book, as the cost is super cheap for the level of information it provides. Guess that means I get to scream at Solidworks doing 3d sketches (seriously hate how that is done in SW... never seems to easily do what I want it to, nevermind SW's "clickity-click fever" they introduce with every new release... there's a guy that tracks how many mouse clicks simple things take to do in SW over releases and posts it on their forums. It's absolute gold if you use SW.).

As an aside, I think the major issue with people wanting the book info for free is that they see the cost and get a bit of sticker shock. Most people are used to the "$20 for a book" level, so $100 causes sticker shock. I think a better way to explain the pricing is that you're paying ~25 cents per page for a high quality instruction set to start on the path to build a car. Even if you value your time at only 1 cent/hour, you cannot beat that when a lot of the tricky problems are solved, or at least a starting solution is presented to get you that much farther down the road and closer to finishing the car.



Kurt, I think trying to clamp down on people sharing your IP is an impossible task today. Providing good support and letting a community grow around an idea are far more important for the people who are actually thinking of buying your book. I think you're doing a good job there, so don't sweat the cheap arses. They were never going to buy your book anyway.


Anyway, wasn't trying to start a discussion on IP protection, but I understand how it went that way. My considerate coworkers were nice enough to give me a nasty cold this weekend, so that's probably what I'll occupy myself doing for a few hours.

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Re: Freakynami's [Virtual] build...

Postby freakynami » 17 Feb 2017, 03:28

In a similar vein, I am certainly happy to share this.

FVB115_1.jpg


FVB115_2.jpg


These turned up the other day, so I've updated my model to be more accurate.

FVB115_3.jpg


They are the QA1 DD601, as used in the rear of the "book" design. I've modelled it dynamically so you can select the configuration of extended, compressed or recommended ride height and the spring will update (although it has the usual SW quirks here...). Native SW2015 files, also available as Parasolid and STEP.

https://grabcad.com/library/coil-over-shock-absorber-1
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Re: Freakynami's [Virtual] build...

Postby freakynami » 05 Apr 2017, 03:55

I'm slowly going insane...

FVB116_1.png


I'm trawling through the several hundred page long Mitsubishi Lancer wiring manual, and mapping every. single. wire. to every. single. connector.

It will help in the long run, I am coming across lots of little links that if cut will throw codes or worse, so I'm getting a good idea of how to pare the loom back.

I also intend to use as much of the stock "system" as possible, I've got a body computer that automatically turns the headlights on, remote alarm, indicators, hazard lights, instruments etc. etc. - I have to have all that crap anyway, I may aswell use the stock stuff if I can, just have to completely re-wire it all as nothing will be in the same place.
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Re: Freakynami's [Virtual] build...

Postby ChrisS » 06 Apr 2017, 02:00

I feel your pain......

I did something similar, but being the fossil I am, did it on the real rather than virtual world. I opted to focus on each system in turn, rather than the entire thing, then kept a watchful eye out for places where they intersected/merged. Only had one minor mistake to fix with some switch illumination that passed through the NAV/Radio system before getting to a switch I am keeping. Had to reinstate a missing link there.

This image isn't the entire thingy any means - its missing the complete engine/ECU sub loom as well as a few spurs feeding lights etc. As it is now, it all works, using the donor instruments, switchgear and accessories, although it is still possible I might go an entirely different direction and use MX5 switchgear and do a bespoke loom. My main problem with using the donor 166 loom is that even after a massive weight loss, there is still one heck of a lot of wire and bulky fuse & relay boxes to hide somewhere. On the plus side, if I can stick with it, I get a few fancy things like cruise control, rain sensing wipers, all the worries about lighting logic are taken care of, things like that.

After getting over the initial shock, I started to find the process oddly therapeutic.
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Re: Freakynami's [Virtual] build...

Postby ShadowCat38 » 24 Apr 2017, 10:06

What software are you using? I'm attempting to do something similar, but I'm using E3.cable. It is painful, and slow. Not at all therapeutic, but I do have the FSM wiring diagrams to reference. I'm going to be using as much of the stock harness as possible, and cut out as much of the unneeded paths as I can. I wouldn't even bother messing with a virtual recreation, but the FSM information is presented in a way to facilitate diagnostics, not reverse-engineering and modification, so I can't keep everything together as far as routings and locations go without re-documenting the entire thing. Fortunately, of the 11-15 harnesses equipped in the car, I'm only using about 4 (engine bay, dashboard, power, and instrument panel), so a majority of the info is safely discarded.

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Re: Freakynami's [Virtual] build...

Postby freakynami » 24 Apr 2017, 18:47

I'm using DraftSight (Dassault knockoff of AutoCRAP) - so just everyday 2D CAD. Visio would be better, as you can drag things around later and they stay "connected". DraftSight is free so a good solution for something I don't use very often.

As I go through I'm finding what you are, that 90% of it won't be needed (sunroof wiring? nope :) ), but, two points I've found useful:

- There are some tricks in the harness that I would have missed had I not been trawling through the weeds - like the airbags, all of the connectors have a "I'm plugged in correctly" diagnostic switch that closes when the plug is physically plugged into the airbag module, so there is a constant ping along those wires looking for a response. If you cut the wires you'll forever get an SRS warning light if using the stock dash module (which I plan to).
- There are a bunch of things in the harness that I am going to try and use, as they will be useful - like headlights, indicators, interior lighting that turns off when you blip the key fob remote etc. Having them mapped out will make it easy to use them when I get to that bit if I want to, without having to wire all of those systems in parallel.

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Re: Freakynami's [Virtual] build...

Postby freakynami » 30 Jun 2017, 01:39

Ignore this, just a test.

Tyres.jpg
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