Build Anxiety?

Goals, budgeting, drivetrain selection, options, driver protection, creating a workshop, etc
dpkilty
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Re: Build Anxiety?

Post by dpkilty » 25 Jan 2017, 02:54

I'll agree with them.

The EFR's are where it's at. Borg Warner is killing it with these turbos. I've had my hands in about a dozen or so builds on various Subaru EJ motors (2.0L and 2.5L) and every time they put out surprising numbers. They are very responsive and still have great top end.

I'm looking at a 7163 to run on the FA motor if I stray from the stock turbo

Def
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Re: Build Anxiety?

Post by Def » 25 Jan 2017, 05:03

rennkafer wrote:
Def wrote:My mind was blown away the first time I drove my 7163 EFR. It had the response of a 250 rwhp Garrett or better(!!!), and could support over 500 rwhp. A true step change in technology.
Ya that's one of the popular ones to run on the older Audi 5 cylinders as well as the newer VW 5 cylinder I'll be using. On the old engines, you'll get about 500whp on E85/race fuel and around 360whp on pump 91. The newer engine like I'll be using make more since the cylinder head is a significantly better flowing design (late 90's vs early 80's design work... they learned a bit). I'll probably go with a 6258 or a 6758 as my goals are under 450hp.

I would strongly suggest the 7163. It's actually not much "bigger" than the 6758, but the power potential and mixed flow turbine wheel are huge benefits for essentially the same response.

The 63 mm turbine wheel is actually 58 mm at its base, only a small part of the mixed flow turbine flares out to 63 mm. The 67 mm compressor with the 58 mm turbine is a bit heavy on the turbine side, while the 7163 evens it out better IMO. The mixed flow turbine also frequently gives a lower boost threshold (rpm that you reach full boost) vs. the radial flow 6758. I hit 14 psi at just 3000 RPM on my 2L in 4th. It'll go up to that pressure at like 2500-2700 RPM in 5th, which the engine really isn't optimized for (288/288 cams on the high lobes, revs to 8500 RPM).

Plus with the 7163 you know you're getting the aluminum CHRA, which saves a few pounds. Full weight with actuator T4 twin scroll 7163 is right at 14 lbs, that's the same weight as a Garrett T25.


Not to be too commercial, but if you guys want EFRs, hit me up. I'm a tier 2 dealer with Full-Race Motorsports, the largest distributor of EFRs in the world.

Midlana1
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Re: Build Anxiety?

Post by Midlana1 » 25 Jan 2017, 06:06

After the $$$$ spent on the GTX3576 and the rebuild, I'm very happy for you...

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rennkafer
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Re: Build Anxiety?

Post by rennkafer » 25 Jan 2017, 11:37

The difference between the 6758 and 7163 on the particular engine/manifold combo I'm using is about 400rpm right where I'd like it to be in boost. If I don't need the overhead for more power (and I know, you always end up wanting more), then it doesn't make sense to give up the spool for something I don't need.

I haven't made the decision yet... longs ways to go before I need to.
Bill J

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Re: Build Anxiety?

Post by Def » 25 Jan 2017, 11:53

Midlana1 wrote:After the $$$$ spent on the GTX3576 and the rebuild, I'm very happy for you...

The GT3576R is a fine turbo, probably more inline with the EFR 7670 as far as power potential is concerned (which is an honest 600 whp turbo). Just think about it if your Garrett takes a crap. I swore off their GT/GTX line after I had a plastic bearing cage let loose on mine on track. Full boost in 4th gear going into a corner, downshift to third under braking... get back on the power and think I've spun up the rear tires because I'm going no where.... Nope... 85-90 kPa MAP at WOT due to sucking through a frozen turbo. So they're not exactly bulletproof in my experience. But I did get a few thousand track miles out of it, so maybe that's just what they're good for?

The EFR uses metal bearing cages and ceramic ball bearings. I considered that a huge benefit by itself.

Plus I couldn't help but think about a nice internal wastegate EFR as you were struggling with wastegate placement issues on your blog.


And sorry for poking at a sore subject, but hey, as one of my buddies at the track always says, "we all have a learning curve of 1." You kinda have to be there, do that, to really know what it's all about.

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Re: Build Anxiety?

Post by Midlana1 » 25 Jan 2017, 11:56

rennkafer wrote:... I know, you always end up wanting more...
Putting a drivetrain from a street car in Midlana automatically doubles the power-to-weight ratio, and cranking it up from there has twice the effect. At around 3.4 lbs/hp, I found there's an end to my desire for more, and I'm there!

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rennkafer
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Re: Build Anxiety?

Post by rennkafer » 25 Jan 2017, 12:15

Midlana1 wrote:
rennkafer wrote:... I know, you always end up wanting more...
Putting a drivetrain from a street car in Midlana automatically doubles the power-to-weight ratio, and cranking it up from there has twice the effect. At around 3.4 lbs/hp, I found there's an end to my desire for more, and I'm there!
But can you leave black stripes down the entire front straight?? I'm a fan of the Mark Donohue metric :D
Bill J

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Re: Build Anxiety?

Post by Midlana1 » 25 Jan 2017, 12:26

So was I until I got the car to where it is now! Then there's the day-to-day aspect of it, where it's very much like owning a thoroughbred race horse and living in the suburbs. It's annoyingly frustrating being on the road with all the commoners who are perpetually in the way and slow, forever trotting when you want to run!

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