Wings and such

Anything aero-related (wings, under-trays) etc. Separate from "Wind Management", which deals with protection from wind buffeting.
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Def
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Re: Wings and such

Post by Def » 24 Jan 2017, 12:39

I'm pretty sure he just picked that up from China, so it might make sense to get it straight from the source rather than have it make a layover in Australia.

http://www.weiku.com/products/5824247/E ... Blade.html


One idea if you don't think a dual element would do it for you, you could always go triple element with crazy amounts of overall camber. :) But realistically I think a dual element would work out, if the main element being maybe a tad small.


I looked again into foam wing cores and they're not that badly priced.

https://flyingfoam.com/


I think it makes sense to cut the work in half by using a GOE-222 profile extrusion, then doing a few wraps of carbon fiber on a foam core for the main element. At least in the rear. I think a dual ~6.5" element might work pretty well up front, and you'll need a big 12-16" chord main element + a 6.5" secondary element to balance it out. You could put some removeable gurney flaps on the front to help balance things out, and also have the dual element be adjustable for AoA. I'd leave the main element at 0-5 deg AoA. I'd personally choose something like 2-3 degree so you don't run into top end separation that you can sometimes get on these heavily cambered airfoils that are starting to get close to zero AoA. Then make the secondary element adjustable so you're at a total of say 10-30 degrees AoA across both elements.

That would keep composite work to an acceptable minimum, and would be a pretty straightforward aluminum work project.

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Re: Wings and such

Post by rennkafer » 24 Jan 2017, 13:41

Midlana1 wrote:March 701
Image

March 741
Image

Funny you picked those, I've worked on the #9 car and the stablemate of the other (same color but with a fabricated headrest, our driver was tall).

While I realize you don't want to do much composite work, the 701 style isn't a long stretch from a 7 nose. You'd mostly be adding some inner structure to support the load. On the 701 there's an aluminum bar that goes through the nose and into each wing, on a 7 nose you could just build the internal structure, put a couple holes in the nose for the bar, and attach the wings to the bar. You'd want to figure out where the pressure center is on the wing so it isn't trying to rotate on the bar axis. On the one I worked on, the AoA was adjusted with a bolt plate on the inner end of the wings to the nose (which was quite heavy and very thick after 30years into its racing career).
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Re: Wings and such

Post by Midlana1 » 24 Jan 2017, 13:48

Another probably-strange looking version would be a full width wing at the front that runs ahead of and below the nose inlet. It would help feed air to the radiator, act somewhat like a front diffuser, and also help push the air up over the front tires. Or that's the theory.

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Re: Wings and such

Post by rennkafer » 24 Jan 2017, 14:06

Midlana1 wrote:Another probably-strange looking version would be a full width wing at the front that runs ahead of and below the nose inlet. It would help feed air to the radiator, act somewhat like a front diffuser, and also help push the air up over the front tires. Or that's the theory.
The "pushing air over the front tires" was made me think of the 741 style nose.

I have to make a correction too.. the 701 AoA wasn't adjustable on the main, as it was molded into the nose, just the rear portion adjusted on that one. The one I was thinking of was the Brabham BT-33, so just apply what I said about the 701 nose adj to that one. We worked on a bunch of old F1 cars and it was 6-12 years ago depending on which one. The first thing to go is your.... crap, I forget.

If you want a visual treat... this is the shop I worked for... http://www.vprace.com.
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Re: Wings and such

Post by Midlana1 » 24 Jan 2017, 15:45

Price for the extruded aluminum wings is $AUD, so that's not bad.

My gut reaction though is that a larger chord is needed for the main rear wing, though these aluminum ones would work for the second tier and the front wing, as noted above.

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Re: Wings and such

Post by Def » 24 Jan 2017, 18:00

Midlana1 wrote:Another probably-strange looking version would be a full width wing at the front that runs ahead of and below the nose inlet. It would help feed air to the radiator, act somewhat like a front diffuser, and also help push the air up over the front tires. Or that's the theory.
That's what I'd do on the front wing. Blend it with the front nose inlet, leave a bit of space to either side for the second element. Should look awesome.

The edge of the second element will create a vortex which helps seal the side of the underbody. Look up F1 Y250 vortex for some info on this in modern F1.

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Re: Wings and such

Post by rennkafer » 24 Jan 2017, 18:10

Def wrote:The edge of the second element will create a vortex which helps seal the side of the underbody. Look up F1 Y250 vortex for some info on this in modern F1.

How effective would that be at the ride heights we're running?
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Re: Wings and such

Post by Def » 24 Jan 2017, 18:21

Very effective, but very sensitive of putting the vortex in the exact spot. But putting a vortex kinda close is better than not having one!

The vortex sheds off so quickly it acts like a curtain.

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Re: Wings and such

Post by Def » 24 Jan 2017, 18:23

A good illustration in humid conditions:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JzS4CEpnO88


3.75-4" of ground clearance isn't "a lot" in the aero world. Yes, you'll pick up more downforce at less ride height, but it's not like you have 8-9" of ground clearance you get in a.lot of modern cars.

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Re: Wings and such

Post by rennkafer » 24 Jan 2017, 19:34

Def wrote:A good illustration in humid conditions:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JzS4CEpnO88


3.75-4" of ground clearance isn't "a lot" in the aero world. Yes, you'll pick up more downforce at less ride height, but it's not like you have 8-9" of ground clearance you get in a.lot of modern cars.

Great video illustration, thanks!

As far as the front goes you're thinking something like a cruder version of this with the chassis sides filled where the radiator goes.

Image
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