Ethanol

mart154
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Re: Ethanol

Postby mart154 » 24 Jan 2014, 16:35

roy928tt wrote:Yes, they are flex fuel cars, and they adjust their tune to suit the fuel that is in the tank. They actually have a sensor that tells them the mix of fuel in the tank and the ecu adjusts to deal with that.


Your average car will run OK on E85, provided the weather is not too cold. Cold ethanol just doesn't want to ignite too good. Flex fuel cars in colder climates have fuel pre-warmers.

The air-fuel mixture won't be right, yes, but a normal fuel injected car will run just fine on E85. I've tested it on many cars.

Midlana1
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Re: Ethanol

Postby Midlana1 » 24 Jan 2014, 19:10

mart154 wrote:...Methanol itself might be a bit too dangerous for average user. It is after all poisonous (including exhaust fumes).
Methanol has stoichiometric air-to-fuel ratio of 6.4:1. So you need to get even bigger pumps and injectors compared to ethanol (stoich. 9:1)
Methanol is also corrosive to aluminium. I have no experience myself, but it is said to be worse than ethanol...

I was asking more for curiosity than anything else. Yeah I know the stuff is nasty; in fact, Allan Staniforth, author of several books on building mid-engine single-seat sports cars, drove a methanol-powered car. He died from either methanol poisoning or lung cancer caused by it. No, I have no interest in using it myself.

Currently, I'm considering having the car tuned for E85, if not also for race gas. That way I'll have three tunes between those and pump gas, so any tune can be loaded depending upon fuel availability. Still thinking it over for now.

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Re: Ethanol

Postby mart154 » 24 Jan 2014, 23:48

Does Hondata have a table switching function also?

If so, you can mount a switch on the dasboard and change the maps accordingly, instead of having a laptop around.

To get the full benefits of E85, you have to adjust the timing also - but you already know that :)

dpkilty
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Re: Ethanol

Postby dpkilty » 03 Feb 2014, 11:39

Midlana1 wrote:I can't figure out why anyone would put E85 into their commuter car; around here, E85 is only 15% less than regular gas. There's no economic reason to use it. I mean, how many illegally modified tubo cars can there be that could actually benefit from it? I guess I just can't see the economic thinking that gas stations use to justify installing a pump.

Not that I'm complaining...


Location, Location, Location...

You hinted to it earlier when you said e85 was everywhere in the midwest. I live in Indiana and almost every major gas station around me has e85. Its usually 50-75 cents a gallon cheaper and can get up to a $1 per gallon cheaper. Its almost economical to run it... almost.

I myself am contemplating running e85 for my build. So it looks like I can elaborate a little more in here about how to go about it.

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Re: Ethanol

Postby Laminar » 03 Feb 2014, 20:08

dpkilty wrote:Location, Location, Location...

You hinted to it earlier when you said e85 was everywhere in the midwest. I live in Indiana and almost every major gas station around me has e85. Its usually 50-75 cents a gallon cheaper and can get up to a $1 per gallon cheaper. Its almost economical to run it... almost.


Even in corn-subsidy-heaven Iowa, it only averages 15% cheaper than E10, and it's even closer in price to E0.

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Re: Ethanol

Postby Midlana1 » 03 Feb 2014, 20:42

Unless it's ~30% cheaper, and/or the engine's been built to maximize its performance, it's a net loss money wise. Compression and power potential wise, it's still a good idea, but how many street cars really take advantage of it?

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Re: Ethanol

Postby sqcomp » 18 Jul 2014, 15:47

Adding my 2cents worth...

I run E-85 on my Midlana donor vehicle. I have two stations in my general area, one close to my work. What I've found with this fuel is that it works out to be about "even" in cost with premium figuring in the increased consumption with the power price.

The plus for me, at least in my mind, is that since the donor engine is turbocharged, I don't have to bother with plumbing a water/meth injection system to lower knock. The inherent properties of the ethanol save that headache.

As was mentioned, the compatibility of the fuel system is a key factor. I'm working with a friend to engineer the use of a Walbro 416 in my donor vehicle's OEM pump canister. I currently run a Walbro 255 and am hitting a "wall" for more power due to the pump's lack of output using this fuel. I'd say that with a little research regarding the pump to use, and some attention to the fuel lines, running ethanol is a viable option.

I've been using the fuel for six months now without an issue. It should be noted that this donor vehicle is NOT a daily driver either.

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Re: Ethanol

Postby Midlana1 » 18 Jul 2014, 17:15

I just checked the price locally and it's currently $3.65/gal. 87/89/91 octane gas is currently $4.05, $4.15, and $4.25. As an everyday fuel it makes no sense due to its poor energy content. For a weekend play car it's a different story.

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Re: Ethanol

Postby Midlana1 » 02 Jan 2015, 21:09

Today at a local gas station, E85 was $2.65 a gallon and regular gas was $2.63 - the point being that the gas was cheaper. I can't imagine any situation where someone would fill up with a fuel that's both more expensive AND needing 50% more of it to go the same distance. Now, in the fringe case of an aftermarket turbocharged engine in a smog exempt car, sure, but as that's maybe one car in 10,000, I just don't see how the economics works.

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Re: Ethanol

Postby dpkilty » 03 Jan 2015, 04:58

I agree. As a daily driver there isn't enough good about ethanol to run it until its WAY cheaper than gas. But in all honesty how many of us are going to daily drive our Midlana?...

I'm live in Indiana. There are a few ethanol plants within 50 miles of me. That and the abundance of corn here usually keeps the price of ethanol 25 cents a gallon cheaper than gas no matter the cost. Unless the gas drops below $2 a gallon. Then its about 5-10 cents cheaper. When gas is up around $4 e85 is usually $3 to $3.25. That to me is when it makes a little more sense. Not enough that I use it personally in my daily though. Its too much of a headache with the 3 different blends we get here.

It makes more sense for a weekend fun car around here as its a lot easier to get your hands on than any form of racing fuel or higher octane ethanol.

On the flip-side of the same coin is the fact that if you go on a long road trip it can be somewhat difficult to find stations with good e85 when your in a pinch.


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