Duratec V6?

Which drivetrain to choose, so many choices, 4-cyl? 6-cyl? NA? Turbo?
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wessonality
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Duratec V6?

Post by wessonality » 02 Jun 2016, 20:40

I'm in the very early planning stages right now. I'm just starting to look at engine options and was wondering about the possibility of running a Duratec V6 (3.0l or 3.5l) in a Midlana, either with an MTX-75 5-speed or the 6-speed automatic from the 2012 Fusion. Would either of those engine/transmission combos be small enough to fit in a Midlana without major surgery?

Thanks,
Mike

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freakynami
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Re: Duratec V6?

Post by freakynami » 03 Jun 2016, 04:44

We've had a few discussions about V6s, not sure if these are relevant, but a starting point...
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=651&start=30#p6296
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=651&start=30#p6307

I think the chassis can be adjusted to suit pretty much any power plant, but transverse is a better bet, within the "envelope" dimensions even better
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=290#p2823

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Re: Duratec V6?

Post by wessonality » 03 Jun 2016, 07:05

Both models of Duratec V6 can be had in transverse (FWD) configuration. I took a look at the envelope dimensions and compared them to the mediocre information I was able to come up with online (two postings on different forums showed identical numbers, so it must be true):

Code: Select all

           Max dimensions     Duratec 3.0      Duratec 3.5     Honda K24
Width:         45"               23"               25"             20"
Height:        24"               23"               30"             26"
Depth:         20"               21"               23"             16"
If those numbers are accurate, the Duratec 3.0 looks plausible. In the 2009 Ford Escape, it had 240bhp @ 6550 RPM and 223 lb-ft torque at 4300 RPM. Guess I need to hit the junkyard with a tape measure.

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Re: Duratec V6?

Post by dpkilty » 03 Jun 2016, 07:37

What is the ultimate end use of the car?

If you are going to be cruising the streets and having a little fun here and there then you should be just fine.
If you want to build something that is going to live most its life on a track you need to look at weights as well.

Just something to think about.

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Re: Duratec V6?

Post by wessonality » 03 Jun 2016, 07:58

Ford lists the Duratec 3.0's weight as 360lbs, fully dressed. Is that a lot more than a comparably powered 4 cylinder?

My main goals for this car would be more on the side of "cruising the streets" with a few HPDE days thrown in. I don't want to have 90% of my weight in the back, though.

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Re: Duratec V6?

Post by dpkilty » 03 Jun 2016, 09:02

I grabbed this from other internet sources so take it with a grain of salt. But it does give an close ballpark from what I've seen.

Its not in the best form since its originally an excel spreadsheet, but should give you some info for comparison.

Engine Weight Height Width Length Notes
Chevy LT1 525 lbs 24" 24.75" 27.5" 16" from exhaust to oil pan; fully assembled
Chevy LS1 460 lbs 25" 26" 28" 15" from exhaust to oil pan; 12.5" from bellhousing to motor mounts; fully assembled
Ford 302 424 lbs 27" 24" 29" Fully assembled with aluminum head
Nissan RB26DETT - 26.57" 26.18" 34.25" Fully assembled
Mazda 20B 350 lbs 20.5" 21.7" 26.5" Fully Assembled with Turbos; Rotary
Mazda 13B-REW 275 lbs 20.5" 21.7" 19.5" Fully Assembled with Turbos; Rotary
Ford Zetec 300 lbs 23.7" 13.4" 19.7" Fully Assembled
Mazda 1.6L Miata 365 lbs 24" 22" 24" Fully Assembled
Rover V8 320 lbs 28" 33.2" 30" Fully Assembled
Subara EJ20 275 lbs 21.7" 31.5" 14.2" Fully Assembled; 27.6" Long with Intercooler and turbo (ESTIMATED)
Mitsu 4G63 - 26" 24" 24" Fully Assembled
Nissan SR20DET - 26" 24" 25" Fully Assembled



5spd gearbox ej20 135 lbs

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Re: Duratec V6?

Post by wessonality » 03 Jun 2016, 09:48

If both our lists are accurate, the 3.0l V6 Duratec is around the same size and weight as the 1.6l Mazda B6ZE. I was expecting more of a difference, and haven't seen much of a downside yet. Other than needing wider rubber in the back...

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Re: Duratec V6?

Post by Dai1983 » 21 Aug 2016, 02:00

Any more thoughts on this?

All along I've been set on using a 125bhp Ford sigma engine but starting to doubt if that's enough power. Extracting more from the sigma is a possibility but it would be cheaper to fit a bigger engine from the start.

I'm considering using a Mondeo 2.0 150bhp Duratec or a 2.3 166bhp from a Mazda 6. In both cases I'd need to buy a solid flywheel and they are slightly heavier than the sigma. I also can't find much about the Mazda gearboxes and I wouldn't be able to use the sigma donors amazing rod gear change or sporty dash clocks.

I'm posting this here as I'm also open to considering a Jaguar Duratec v6 with 240bhp mated to a Mondeo gearbox. Apparently the Mondeo ST220 inlet reduces the height of the Jag engine but may have an impact on power. I'd also want to use the Jag ECU which I'm not entirely sure is possible

As you say I'd need wider rubber unless 7 inch wheels is enough?

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Re: Duratec V6?

Post by ChrisS » 24 Aug 2016, 01:52

The Jaguar V6 sounds like an interesting option. You may have spotted from the links Freaky posted, I'm using an Alfa V6 in my build so I'm V6 biased anyway ;)

Basically, you can make pretty much anything fit - it's just a matter of making the hole big enough one way or the other then making sure you get the suspension pickups in the right places relative to the chassis centreline and base. Make it longer, make it wider - no problem. Of course there will be consequences but mostly they look to be positive ones. Slightly longer wheelbase is no bad thing. If you opt for it as a solution to moving your axle line back somewhat, longer rear trailing arms is good too.

FWIW, I built a mid-rear car a few years back and initially it had a 2l 4-pot in it. Not long after getting it on the road, I converted to an Alfa V6 and yes, you could certainly feel the increased weight and higher centre of mass at the back, but it wasn't bad - just noticeable and soon felt normal. Traction with this layout is superb.

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