Engine choices

Which drivetrain to choose, so many choices, 4-cyl? 6-cyl? NA? Turbo?
Langan
Posts: 375
Joined: 21 Dec 2008, 09:52

Engine choices

Postby Langan » 21 Dec 2008, 23:02

Is there a second best engine? K20's are pricey K24's aren't bad but don't really compare HP wise. So is there any other good 4 or 6 cylinder engines rite for a book build?

Midlana1
Site Admin
Posts: 2709
Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 16:44
Anti-spam question: 4
Are you a spammer: No
Location: Southern California

Re: Other engines

Postby Midlana1 » 22 Dec 2008, 10:52

As of this date, K24A4 engines are about $1000 shipped with the other K24 versions higher. This guy sells them: http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=33862

As far as recommending a particular engine, I don't know enough about all of them to do so. However if you want to stay Honda, the K20 will be cheaper since it's no longer The Next Big Thing. If you're patient you can find already-built ones from people going to the K24. I found mine through http://www.k20a.org

I don't know what drivetrains have the intake on the front if that's what you mean. There's room for either type, intake forward or behind the engine. For example, the Honda H22A1 will fit just fine, though with the exhaust forward of the engine I'd add a stainless shield for the gas tank. It also means it would require a double diagonal above the engine since the horizontal tube behind the engine would hit the intake.

It would be cool to start a list of front-intake drivetrains as reference but I don't have the time to walk around wrecking yards and checking out 0-15 yr old drivetrains. If we all add in our knowledge we can come up with a list. Honda, Toyota, Ford, GM, Mitsubishi, Neon, there's a big list to sort through.

And welcome!

Langan
Posts: 375
Joined: 21 Dec 2008, 09:52

Re: Other engines

Postby Langan » 22 Dec 2008, 14:47

Thanks for the info Kurt. The list is what I had in mind for the 4 cyclinders. Would love to here about otheres aswell maybe even V6's

Midlana1
Site Admin
Posts: 2709
Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 16:44
Anti-spam question: 4
Are you a spammer: No
Location: Southern California

Re: Other engines

Postby Midlana1 » 23 Dec 2008, 08:42

The VW VR6 comes in many different displacements and has an incredible exhaust note, but it's somewhat heavy. Mazda has a tiny 1.8 liter (I think) V6, too. Unfortunately I don't know the dimensions of either. This is the consequences of being the first and I'm sorry I don't know more, but we'll figure it out; we have to start somewhere, huh?

schultzy_86
Posts: 8
Joined: 23 Dec 2008, 17:29

Re: Other engines

Postby schultzy_86 » 23 Dec 2008, 18:28

I think the K24 engine is by far the best choice for this application. You get a much fatter torque curve than the K20 for less money with no weight penalty. In Australia we have the Accord Euro with the K24A3 engine that makes 148kW (around 200HP) and 225ish Nm, only about 15kW shy of the K20. I am struggling to find any other engine with a similar power output around the same weight, not to mention that it does this without forced induction - a big factor in my engine choice since simplicity is one of my main design goals. All other similar sized (2 - 2.5L) FWD engines seem to make significantly less power. One other engine worth some thought is the Toyota 2ZZ-GE (used in the corolla sportivo here in oz), a 1.8L that makes 141kW and is mated to a 6 speed box. One thing I am unsure about is the gearing in such a lightweight car- is first gear even used or required?

Midlana1
Site Admin
Posts: 2709
Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 16:44
Anti-spam question: 4
Are you a spammer: No
Location: Southern California

Re: Other engines

Postby Midlana1 » 23 Dec 2008, 18:46

I don't know what the K20 weighs (the K24A1 assembly is 400 lbs complete) but I would expect it to be quite a bit cheaper. K24s in the U.S. demand a premium because all the "Honda kids" are swapping them in the K24. That's why I suggested the K20 which might have an advantage of not having so much torque down low that it's not usable due to wheelspin.

Anyway, about gearing, it was a huge issue in the Mini because of its small 13" tires that were 21.5" OD. That alone threw the gearing off by around 20% in the wrong direction, and yes, I hardly ever used first gear.

However, I learned from that so Midlana specifies 25" OD rear tires. This is very nearly the same OD as OEM tires so first gear will be more usable, just. Since the weight of the car is about 40% that of the donor, that's the same as increasing power by 250%! So while you won't have to shift early due to being short-geared, if you floor it in first you'll make lots of smoke. That said, since it's mid-engine, with most of the load transfering onto the driven wheels, traction will be much better than in a FWD car.

In the Mini when I'd rev it up in second gear and take off in a hurry, it was a fight between the tires and clutch for traction, and the clutch would lose, so I didn't do it often.

Langan
Posts: 375
Joined: 21 Dec 2008, 09:52

Re: Other engines

Postby Langan » 23 Dec 2008, 21:00

Another engine with the rite layout is the Ecotec about the same power in 2.4 trim 175HP but is said to handle boost well. The 2.0 supercharged 205 stock with the GM 2-3 upgrade is around 260HP and higher rpms.
Does anyone know what they weigh? Or have any opinions...........Jim

Midlana1
Site Admin
Posts: 2709
Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 16:44
Anti-spam question: 4
Are you a spammer: No
Location: Southern California

Re: Other engines

Postby Midlana1 » 23 Dec 2008, 21:57

Doing a Google search turns up the usual collection of answers ranging from 350-500lbs. Like all engine weights it's hard to know what's included and what isn't. If the above are correct the low end's probably just the long block while the high engine is a runnable drivetrain, though 500lbs seems high. OTOH the Honda H22A1 was 475lbs complete so knows. Short of showing the engine on a scale with a picture of the scale reading, it's a nebulous number.

The Ecotec is probably worth some serious research though since it's so common and reasonably priced.

ekim952522000
Posts: 312
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 11:51
Anti-spam question: 0
Are you a spammer: Yes

Re: Other engines

Postby ekim952522000 » 23 Dec 2008, 22:26

The V6 out the Honda Accord is being swapped into civic's now with a bolt in kit. If it can be swapped into civic's I imagine it will fit in Midlana.
Mike Uhlinger
Midlana Beta Builder
Northern California

Midlana1
Site Admin
Posts: 2709
Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 16:44
Anti-spam question: 4
Are you a spammer: No
Location: Southern California

Re: Other engines

Postby Midlana1 » 24 Dec 2008, 09:31

I didn't realize that. I wonder what the fore/aft distance across the drivetrain is; hard to believe it's as narrow as a four, but I guess if the intake is between the cylinders, maybe.


Return to “Drivetrain selection”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest